Difference between revisions of "Talk:Netherlands"

Latest revision as of 22:17, 12 November 2012

Why EXACTLY is this page a candidate for "speedy deletion"? InoueOrihime 23:33, December 5, 2009 (UTC)

• For the same reason we don't have a page on Australia: one sketch and some fragmentary notes do not justify a character page. The Spie 00:25, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
  • I'm afraid I disagree, since Holland has appared in AT LEAST two strips aside of that sketch even if it's in silhouette form, not to mention he has been given notes from Himaruya himself. I think that's enough to have a mention in the wiki and doesn't justify you single-handedly deciding that the whole article should be deleted. InoueOrihime 01:31, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
    • Bulgaria has appeared, in full, in a strip and in the anime. He doesn't have an article. Thailand has rather substantial notes on him from Himaruya himself, as well as detailed sketches. He doesn't have an article. Saxony and Bavaria have appeared in full in group shots in a strip. They don't have articles. Netherlands already has a mention in the wiki, on the main character list page. One appearance in a group shot, an appearance in which he's a side character (Japan's the main character of that sketch), and some fragmentary notes is not enough to justify a page. When he gets into a strip, or when Himaruya releases more detailed notes on him, then he'll be more deserving, but not now. Where was the push for a Netherlands article before today? We still have the same amount of info about him that we had two days ago. Oh, yeah, Himaruya drew him without blackening. In other words, nothing's changed about Netherlands' status other than the fact that we now have a face, hair color, and eye color. And I haven't deleted the article. I've only recommended it for deletion. It's up to Lil to decide on deletion. My recommendation is based on criteria that have been used for other minor characters here, and is certainly justified. The Spie 02:07, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
      • Except for how he has a face, he has notes AND he has back-up that can be considered enough. Also, Bulgaria has appared in the strops and anime... but he hasn't gotten any notes or profiles, which Holland does. The notes on Thailand aren't that detailed either; only scribbles in his sketch, not separated from them. Saxony and Bavaria... *where* are the notes aside of their cameos, which Holland DOES have? Belgium has a page despite only having cameos and notes, so I do not see why Holland should not have his own one. Therefore, I think speedy deletion is unnecessary and that the article should stay here. InoueOrihime 02:20, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
        • Well, I don't think he has enough back-up. Netherlands doesn't have a profile, just notes. Belgium did have a profile, and has solo artwork (which Netherlands does not). Thailand has more notes than Netherlands does; where they were located was irrelevant. Here's my point: if Netherlands gets an article, then Australia, Bulgaria, and Thailand should as well, considering the amount and level of material available for them. I don't believe any of the four deserve their own article at this point. If you believe so strongly about Netherlands deserving an article, how about writing up ones for the other three? The Spie 02:59, December 6, 2009 (UTC)
        • Oh, yeah, if you don't accept the examples I gave, then how about this one? Shinatty-chan, Hanatamago, and Kumaguro have far more material than Netherlands, so why don't they have their own pages? The Spie 03:13, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

Kumaguro? XD

• Kumajiro, obviously. I have a lot on my mind right now, okay? The Spie 16:13, December 6, 2009 (UTC)

uhh, this should really be netherlands, because formally holland is two of his provinces. i don't know, maybe i'm just nitpicking here. 84.195.191.181 00:53, December 30, 2009 (UTC)

In Japanese, The Netherlands is 'Oranda' which comes from 'Holland' which is probably why this article and a lot of fan material use Holland. But yeah, it should be The Netherlands, but directly translating from Japanese would make it Holland--Elegentmess 12:13, January 1, 2010 (UTC)

It's been two months... decision time? Keep or delete? I vote keep, he has more info on his page than Taiwan, and she has an article. CeciN'estPasUnePipe 15:25, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

If we were to directly translate every country, all the names would be different. "Doitsu" wouldn't be "Germany" but "Deutschland". The fact of the matter is that in Japan, they call countries by what the native people call it. The reason why the Netherlands' Japanese name is "Oranda" (Holland) is because the people that live there call it that. While it's official name is, without a doubt, The Netherlands, if the majority of the people call it Holland, Holland it is. So, with all that said, that is why fans translate "Oranda" as Holland, rather than "Netherlands." It really does mean that country though.

I'll vote on "Keep". Volume 3 is around the corner, anyway, so who knows? We might finally see more of him there. And unlike Australia (who's just a sketch, though someone likes to keep inserting their fanon into the wiki), we know some things about him, at least enough for a basic article. I'm not sure if Thailand's notes were ever translated, but there didn't seem to be much on him by Himaruya. Bulgaria is a "blank" like Australia, pretty much. And then there are the characters like Luxembourg who are spoken of, but have no face at all (so far). Ceras SanMarina 19:46, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

I've looked over the article and I'll keeping the article. From what it looks like, Holland looks like he has more info on his page than Belgium does! Icelilly 20:29, February 7, 2010 (UTC)

Holland --> Netherlands?

After mentioning it on KatDWolf's blog, Ceras and I were thinking about changing Holland to the Netherlands. My basic argument is that the country's official name is Netherlands and scans and fans seem to be referring to him as Netherlands. I figure we can just write something like "Netherlands, also known as Holland, [...]" to note what others may call him from time to time. Thoughts?

Agreed. Holland is only two of the provinces of the Netherlands. I guess it could be the equivalent of calling the United States "Carolina", "Virginia", or "Dakota". Or we can just get rid of the middleman and call him "John Constantine". The Spie 21:49, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

You could also use North and South Italy as an argument... There may be a character in the future who represents the rest?

...Anyways, I vote for name change. :D Just felt like I should bring that up.

Besides, we could always change it back, if that does end up happening.

P.S. - Spie, best. example. ever. --Tiamatwizard 23:13, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

John Constantine's certainly better than Edward Cullen as a lookalike. And cool to see that there's more support for the change. I think perhaps I'll go ahead and do it, I've been wanting to fix up some things anyway (now let's hope an edit war does not happen over this, that would be lame). Ceras SanMarina 23:19, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

I think Netherlands is all of Netherlands; in Japan, オランダ means Netherlands, but sounds like Holland. Actually, I believe ホラント州 is used for Holland. So, sounds like it was an error made earily on. Ha, Spie; awesome example! Go ahead, Ceras; I can work on making the fixes for other articles.Watermint 23:23, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

Okay, I think I got 'em all. Watermint 23:44, May 16, 2010 (UTC)

The pet rabbit

From what I've seen in the gallery at Creatures of Hetalia, that rabbit does not look like Nijntje/Miffy 'at all'. Why is this even mentioned? 83.163.51.128 19:34, June 21, 2010 (UTC)

Well, it's said he has a pet rabbit, so that really does have to be mentioned; the rabbit did have it's own little strip, as well.

I'm guessing that the "Looks like Miffy!" comment was probably from his original notes, but when the rabbit was drawn out, the plan changed. Might have to wait until the rabbit is drawn again with Netherlands for a better look. --Tiamatwizard 03:10, June 22, 2010 (UTC)

After doing some research, I came across Miffy's friend Snuffy, who is a brown dog and looks a lot like Netherland's Rabbit aside from coloring. (Here is an image of a plushie of Snuffy.) I'm sure the original poster wanted to make the comparison but simply didn't communicate it well. Kurohaneshizumi 14:58, July 4, 2010 (UTC)

Hmmm...

I have a Dutch boyfriend and most Dutch people call their country Nederlanden. There is Noord-Holland and Zuid-Holland, which are two provinces in the Netherlands. This is referring to a point in the trivia where it says "Unlike the UK, Dutch people actually refer to their own country as Holland" Which does not sound right as most Dutch people I know call it Nederlanden. Maybe I'm just getting too technical, but here is food for thought.

KatDWolf 21:00, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

Woops. That was suppose to say, "Unlike the UK, the majority of the Dutch people actually refer to their own country as Holland," which is pretty accurate. Even during the World Cup most of the Netherlands' merchandise had "Holland" on it rather than "Netherlands." It's been fixed to have "majority" added. ^_^

-Kurohaneshizumi 21:49, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

That looks much better now :) Sorry if I'm being too picky or technical >.<

KatDWolf 22:29, August 2, 2010 (UTC)

I am Dutch, so I probably know what I'm talking about. Most Dutch people do not refer to their country as Holland OR Nederlanden. 'De Nederlanden' is a historical name for the region (often also including a part of Belgium), so nobody would use that name to refer to the modern nation. As for 'Holland', in Dutch most people would use the name 'Nederland', but in English most Dutch people will say 'Holland' mainly because they know foreigners know the country under that name and because it's shorter. Although people that want to be technically correct or are from a different province than the two Holland provinces, prefer to use 'the Netherlands'. 'Holland' is very often used in football cheers and songs, but I'm pretty sure the reason is that it's the 'international name'.

I am also Dutch. And indeed de Nederlanden is only used in History classes. I must say I do use Holland too, but I use Nederland more often, a lot more often in fact. And I must also say I do live in the province Noord-Holland [Amsterdam in fact, which is really beautful by the way, and worth a visit. I still enjoy the scenery after cycling throigh it every day.] so that may be the reason, but I don't know. Just my side of the story. [by: Aimée, 23:22, October 11, 2010]

Sexuality

An anon posted that Netherlands' sexuality has been comfired because of his lolicon complex. However, none of his recent profiles have mentioned his lolicon complex so it's possible this statement is moot. What do you guys think? Icelilly 17:16, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

I'm inclined to say that his sexuality can't be determined by a simple mention of a lolicon complex. The term in and of itself is subjective, as he could be refering to a variety of different yet specific attractions. He also could be bisexual. In any case, it hasn't been mentioned in awhile, so Himaruya could have even removed that aspect from his character. If months and months go by with mention of Netherlands but no complex, I'd even be in favor of saying "He was initially described as [blah blah blah]." Basically, it's original research to state outright his sexuality when he has barely appeared and his lolicon complex has only been mentioned (briefly) once. Watermint 19:19, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

True, true. The lolicon complex can also refer to the admiration of the lolita look right? Icelilly 19:31, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

Possibly, though I think the connotations usually imply more of an obsession or attraction. Still, we really don't know muh about Netherlands...And we've never even seen him show an interest in anything other than trading with Japan and drugs (and even then he was rather stoic). Watermint 19:45, October 27, 2010 (UTC)

"Tied things"?

"Also in a seperate translation it is stated that he also is a neurotic free older brother that hates tied things and messy gardens."

What are "tied things"?

• That's a good question. I have absolutely no idea. D: Anyone have the original text? ―Kurohaneshizumi 17:45, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
• I'm pretty sure it's just what it says. Tied things. Things like shoelaces(especially in knots), ropes, etc. Anything that is tied, tangled, or knotted up. It kind of makes sense with the "messy gardens" bit, since it's sort of. . .messy, to have a bunch of tangled things around. Tarafish 18:19, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
  • LMFAO. That's kind of... silly. XDDD I mean, normally people find UNtied things messy. Not the other way around. Pfffft. Go figure. ―Kurohaneshizumi 18:28, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
    • XD Well, I dunno. Maybe it's more the complication of tied things--like when things get into really tight knots. I'm just as stumped as anyone. Really, I believe he was also stated to be a neat freak? So I'm just combining information. Maybe someone could ask the person who translated it. --Tarafish 18:33, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
      • Yup, he was said to be a neat freak. I dunno. I would definitely like to see the original Japanese since I could translate it myself... but I don't know where this came from, exactly. XD Well, Neth is an odd guy anyway. I wouldn't be surprised if, as you said, they meant knots and such. ^_^ ―Kurohaneshizumi 18:41, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
        • Oh, okay! I can get you that! Here you are.
          • Ah! Okay, I see. The whole paragraph says this: "Nervous and sullen, he's a freedom [fighter] older brother. He hates bound things and dirty gardens!" So I'm assuming that it's not tied things, per se, but bound things (chained dogs, jailed people... stuff like that). It actually works out quite well in terms of Netherland's history (being ruled by foreigners who want to tell him what he should and shouldn't do). Now that he's a free country, he doesn't have that problem but he doesn't like things to be bound (including himself). Hope that clarifies things a little! ^_^ ―Kurohaneshizumi 19:12, November 28, 2010 (UTC)
            • Could you please translate the block of text at the upper right corner? (the one that says 1577) I've never seen it translated before and it does seem important. Thanks! Abidos 11:11, December 9, 2010 (UTC)Abidos
              • Phew! What a job! That text is concerning their history a little. It's as follows:

They grew up working hard, though they were some of the privileged [countries] who were kidnapped; their growth phase stoping because of Britian and France's consistant fist-fights during the height of the Middle Ages when it was perfectly splendid to easily eat your siblings. In the late Middle Ages, 1577, Maximillian [of Austria/Habsburg] married Mary [of Burgundy] which led to Spain being under the control of the Burgundian-Habsburg rule. Both seem to have had completely different personalities but their roots suggested they had dexterous hands skillful in diplomacy.

• • • • • • • • This is concerning how the Benelux siblings came to be under Habsburg―and thus Spanish―control. Since I just took a course on Habsburg History, I'll try to clarify it a little...</li>

The Benelux territories were fought over often because they had rich lands. England was always fight France over them. Burgundy (the Free County not the Dutchy which belonged to France already) eventually bound them together to combat this. Maximillian I of Austria (from the Habsburg family) married Mary of Burgundy (in 1477, not 1577) and had a son, Philip in Bruges (a city in Belgium). Mary died when Philip was only 4 or 5 years old. But when he was 16, he took over the throne of the Burgundian Territories (Benelux included) and married Joanna of Castile (at the time, half of what is now Spain). After a series of deaths, Philip also took over the throne of Aragon (the other half of what is now Spain, effectively making that territory "Spain"). And that is how all of his territories―Burgundy, Benelux and Spain―all came together.

• • • • • • • • Himaruya's version is a little... off. XD But mostly correct. I hope that helps! ―Kurohaneshizumi 19:32, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

scar on forehead

i know that the current guess for why the scar on his forehead is there is alot better, but i just wanted to point something out XD

in the dutch rap "Het Land Van", they say their country is represented by harry potter, because their Prime Minister was said to look like him. Himaruya could have simply been trying to tie it in as a joke, and put a scar on Holland's head to emphasize on that, but i dont know :P just wanted to point that out~

• That could be since that song came out in 2005, WAY before Himaruya released Netherlands' design in 2010. But more likely than not, it's just a coincidence since we've seen in the past that physical attributes translate to something a little more concrete. (Though it wasn't lost on the Japanese. NIKUMIKE who does pixel art of Hetalia did Halloween versions and made Netherlands Harry Potter. XDDD) ―Kurohaneshizumi 02:15, December 9, 2010 (UTC)

Marijuana

In what sketch is he shown smoking marijuana? I only remember ever seeing him smoke his pipe and a cigarette which might be a joint, but unless it's specifically stated that it's marijuana I don't think it should say so here.Abidos 10:38, December 9, 2010 (UTC)Abidos

Lolicon, xenophobe, tsundere.

Since we have a current profile and the old one was made long before the author started developing the character and at least some of these characteristics appear to have been dropped I suggest moving them to he trivia section. Abidos 11:26, December 9, 2010 (UTC)Abidos

Suggested names

In the blog post with the human names here the author clearly states they were suggested names from some event where he asked fans for ideas. I don't really see where there could be room for confusion unless someone with a better grasp of Japanese than me wishes to give a better interpretation?

• I just want to add this. There was confusion among the Nyotalia names, and those are under that little fan-suggested line, too. He only said that those weren't the official ones in the clear up entry and said to call the genderbent characters whatever name we pleased. He didn't say anything about the lists of names for the others, and I'm pretty sure he would have said "all of those are fan suggestions so call all of them whatever you want" as opposed to just saying such about the Nyotalia names, if there wasn't a possibility that he would use them officially.
  • I believe the confusion about the nyotalia names (both in the western and the Japanese fanbase) was because there only appeared one for every character unlike the other names. As I said, I'm not aware of people believing he will necessarily choose one of the suggested names (or that he will choose any at all) so there would be no need to deny or confirm anything.
    In my entry I present the names the way I believe he presents them: they were fan suggested names he liked. He doesn't say anything about considering them options for their cannon human name, or if he will give them a cannon human name at all. So I see no reason to present them as such on the wikia.

Kingdom of the Netherlands/The Netherlands

Officially "The Kingdom of the Netherlands" is a sovereign state formed by four countries, Aruba, Curaçao, The Netherlands and Sin Maarten. Might be worth it to include it in the trivia?

• Sure! I don't see why not. ^_^ ―Kurohane Shizumi 18:01, 31 December 2010 (UTC)

There seems to be some confusion regarding this trivia note.

"The Kingdom of the Netherlands" Is formed by four independent countries, The Netherlands (the European country), is one of them. The other three are Aruba, Curaçao and Sint Maarten. All four countries are equal partners of the kingdom, with their own governments. The character made by Himaruya seems to represent the European country. I see no reason to assume otherwise and it would go against other similar cases (Arthur representing the UK instead of England) As such, calling the character "The kingdom of the Netherlands" is an easily made mistake. Just as calling the European country "The kingdom of the Netherlands" would be a mistake.

"England" does represent the United Kingdom. It's been confirmed on multiple occasions by Himaruya and character cards referring to his official title as the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. He is meant to act a representation of the sovereign state in political matters. His brothers exist as separate countries, of course, but only England represents them as a whole. It isn't a stretch to say that this Netherlands is in the same predicament. By using such wording as "although" and "in reality," you are treating it as a mistake. Because a similar instance has already appeared in the series (the UK case) and we cannot confirm it as an error, we should simply state it as fact. Watermint 14:24, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

• If you go to the page on England in this wiki you will see that although he is called UK, or Britain, by other characters, he is England. He is not Wales, or Scotland, or northern Ireland. Historically the kingdoms of the UK often acted as a single entity, so having them represented by a single nation-tan makes some sense. Now a days there are still institutions of which they are part as the UK.This is not the case of Netherlands. The kingdom is only a few decades old and does not act as a whole. (Aruba, Curaçao and S.M. are not part of the European Union. Laws passed in the Netherlands are not necessarily adopted in these countries although they have to be respected, they do not share the same currency (not even before the euro), etc..)Personally I believe that Himaruya wasn't aware that "The kingdom.." isn't the same as "the Netherlands" (unlike "El reino de España" which is the same as "España" or Bundesrepublik Deutschland, and many other examples) and when he uses Netherlands he is only thinking about the european country, not about the transatlantic political union. If you believe he does, and there is indeed, no proof of the contrary, then you should change the entry back.--Abidos 15:15, 2 February 2011 (UTC)Abidos

He is England and the UK; it also says as much on this Wiki. Furthermore, "Igirisu" is used to refer to the UK, charts/sketches write out UK, official merchandise uses UK, and various other official materials refer to him as the UK. It's obvious he isn't Scotland or Wales or N. Ireland, and it is noted that they are the only ones to refer to him as England. Basically, England acts as the representation of UK as a sovereign state without representing each individual nation, but it only stretches as far a political affairs concerning the entire UK go. I am by no means saying that Netherlands is meant to represent those countries. Himaruya could have made a mistake in naming, or Netherlands, like the England character, represents the country and sovereign state simultaneously. I am simply proposing that we do not imply that Himaruya has unintentionally made an error when he may know exactly what he is doing. Watermint 15:28, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

Actually it says he "is" England and sometimes "represents" the UK, as in, turns up in meetings and speaks for all four of them.(If he were the UK he would be all four countries, you can not be , at the same time, a part and the whole). I don't give much value to charts and sketches since they also refer to Netherlands as "Holland". As I said, if you believe he makes Netherlands represent the Kingdom, and not just the country, you should change it back.--Abidos 15:47, 2 February 2011 (UTC)

That is what I am saying. He is a "representation," but not in the strict sense of being a precise personification. Still, Himaruya continues to refer to him as the official representation of the UK. I believe the same may be applied to the Netherlands, which is why I want to leave the line neutral. Watermint 17:02, 2 February 2011 (UTC)